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Post by lazario on Oct 24, 2007 4:18:40 GMT -5
I think the thing that made me start this post was... Hostel was good. It had a good story set-up. But, I've heard Hostel II doesn't have any story. It's just a bunch of people getting tortured, only with what some say is less onscreen violence.
If a horror movie doesn't have a story or a point... it's a torture film. Which falls under a different category than horror.
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Post by tsmooth31 on Oct 24, 2007 4:28:32 GMT -5
^^ it does have a story..its just pretty basic
basically like the first...except this has 2 diff views..
the people being killed and the people actually doing the killing
so i would say it has more of a story then the first
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Post by Evil Dave on Oct 24, 2007 4:36:27 GMT -5
I don't think the original had any more of a "story" than the sequel did.
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Post by lazario on Oct 24, 2007 12:21:24 GMT -5
The first movie had a real point though. And some surprising complexity and was clever, considering the source.
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vincentprice
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Post by vincentprice on Oct 24, 2007 17:08:17 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of the first one, I was pretty bored with most of it.
Really enjoyed the second though, a huge improvement.
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Post by lazario on Oct 25, 2007 4:48:16 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of the first one, I was pretty bored with most of it. I can see that. I thought there was a lot of talking in the beginning of the movie when, yeah, I heard everyone say the movie was a torturefest. But you know what? I've seen torture movies before. Some of them do more torturing than story telling, others do story telling and use the torture to give the story power. As I watched Hostel keep going... I realized that there was a point to all the talking. And by golly, the movie was doing something very smart. And then the torture comes along, and HOT DAMN if it didn't work better with all the story and dialogue that worked up to it. The only thing that really hurt that movie was predictability. Because if you saw Marathon Man, which some people have several times (me... maybe twice), than you know when the torture guy (the one with the glasses) starts to talk to his victim... you've heard what he says before. Basically, it's much the same as Marathon Man- only in that movie, there was a hidden conspiracy that you didn't know everything about yet. In Hostel, it's just chewing. None of it meant anything. And the ending... you know what the outcome of all the situations is going to be. In fact, when the Asian girl commits suicide, I'm told that that's a standard thing in Asian horror movies. But really, those things aren't enough to keep the movie from being brilliant. And surprisingly understated. But it walked a tight rope. There's no way the sequel could be as good. Besides... when you do it once and it barely works... it's stupid to try it again. And gratuitous. And gratuity is what is killing horror. Hostel was a film of invention, vision, and vitality. And surprisingly enough- not gratuitous! Anyone can see this sequel is gratuitous at least. So the only thing that can save it... Is a point. A serious, cultural statement. About us as people or our times. So, what's the point of Hostel II?
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Post by tsmooth31 on Oct 25, 2007 13:16:21 GMT -5
^^ there is no real point...but its not a bad movie...just more of the same
the difference is tho like i said instead of just showing from the victims point of view...they actually make the guys killing "main" characters
overall tho it had more of a point and message then the first one
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vincentprice
drug dealer
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Post by vincentprice on Oct 25, 2007 15:18:00 GMT -5
It wasn't so much the talking that bored me as it was how Eli made the movie. The first half was basically a straight-up Sex Comedy and then bam, it's Horror. I would've preferred a complete Horror movie than half and half, it just didn't sit well with me.
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Post by malbowski13 on Nov 2, 2007 11:56:04 GMT -5
When i first watched Hostel, I was blown away.It seemed so fresh and different.Just picked up Hostel 2 yesterday....not even close!To me, it seemed like the first one was very mean-spirited and dark,dreary,etc. I found the second one to be almost comical,different tone for sure.The "snip scene" was pretty gruesome but story,characters,ending...all poor.
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Post by tsmooth31 on Nov 2, 2007 16:14:34 GMT -5
^^ i pretty much felt the opposite
i really thought everything about the second was better..
i also thought 2 was more mean spirited becase they actually brough you into the lives of the guys doing the killing..
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Post by malbowski13 on Nov 3, 2007 11:18:55 GMT -5
How 'bout sympathy for the victims? The characters in Hostel 1 had more of an impact on me than the ones in Hostel 2 by far.I found that the "soccer-playing" at the end really didn't fit the overall tone either.(was really funny though)!I can say the switch with the two main businessmen's attitudes was a nice twist.
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Post by malbowski13 on Nov 3, 2007 21:48:39 GMT -5
Just gave it a second chance. Hostel 4/5 Hostel 2 3.5/5
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Post by tsmooth31 on Nov 4, 2007 0:54:41 GMT -5
i thought the characters in 2 had more of an impact on me
gues everyone has got a diff outlook on them both tho
but i do agree the soccer thing at the end really didnt fit
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Post by malbowski13 on Nov 5, 2007 18:53:39 GMT -5
Natalya or Axelle?(hotter femme fatale)
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Post by malbowski13 on Nov 5, 2007 21:11:59 GMT -5
Also, I loved how you see Svetlana and Natalya when Paxton finds them in the pub.They look like they've been on the pipe for awhile.Same goes for "Roman" when Lorna sees him later on.Maybe Meth?! I thought it was a nice touch.
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Post by lazario on Nov 11, 2007 11:38:51 GMT -5
malbowski13 - that's exactly what I've heard about the movie. And again, from pretty smart people who I trust quite a bit. I'm gonna trust you on this one and not waste my time with it. It wasn't so much the talking that bored me as it was how Eli made the movie. The first half was basically a straight-up Sex Comedy and then bam, it's Horror. I would've preferred a complete Horror movie than half and half, it just didn't sit well with me. I know what you're talking about. And it really wasn't half and half. If you remember the beginning, they as a group kept encountering things that disturbed them. So the tone would change when it was appropriate. And it did several times. When the Dutch businessman sat down on the train and start talking about weird things. When they saw some kind of display in one of those buildings. When their first buddy goes missing. As for the characters looking for sex as comedy... that's actually part of the point of the movie. They were joy-riders, out for a good time, and you see that they do whatever they want, thinking there are never going to be any consequences. The movie then shows them that nothing comes for free and they now have to pay the toll for their good time. Only, they didn't know how much they'd have to pay. The whole thing is sort of like a metaphor for the way young people in the world are today. These guys in this movie are sort of taken right of any faceless season of The Real World (after New Orleans- that is, the final decent season of that show). They're idiots. And they represent all the things that are wrong with today's youth. They're all party, drinkin', cheap sex obsessed hounds who don't care about anyone but themselves. Of course, that one blond guy was a little different than his friends. But, over the course of the movie, even though these guys are dispicable, you have to see them as human beings even after seeing how lame and obnoxious they are. They end up facing one of the biggest problems in our world today: sadistic torture for the pleasure of the torturer. Everyone in a position of ultimate wealth and power sanctions it and nobody feels the after-effects of it. Just the victims feel it. And, the ending is genius too. It shows, like the Jews after the holocaust, or the Iraq after our invasion - they don't forget or forgive what is done to them. They can get their revenge if they try hard enough! There are also messages about prostitution. The guy uses the girl, then she leads him to the torture chamber and laughs at him. Now, she's taking pleasure from his being used as an object. How perfect is that? How smart is that?? Very. It just dips into the depths of moral depravity to show us an ultimate horror we often don't want to see. The movie is much smarter than you're giving it credit for. It's just something you missed. Maybe you'll never see that. I'm fine with that. But it was a really smart movie with a lot of deep, important messages.
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vincentprice
drug dealer
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Post by vincentprice on Nov 11, 2007 19:23:36 GMT -5
I think this is the first time ever that someone has claimed an Eli Roth movie to have deep important messages.
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Post by lazario on Nov 12, 2007 6:55:13 GMT -5
Um, even he knows how to give his films power. It wouldn't have that power without the messages. So - yeah, the film has that.
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Post by malbowski13 on Nov 29, 2007 7:31:27 GMT -5
The only director I can name that has repeatedly made films without meaning is Uwe Boll.Who actually pays this turd and funds his movies?
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Post by lazario on Nov 30, 2007 8:56:25 GMT -5
Some German tax shelter company. Like people looking for a write-off. Except, they're in Germany.
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