"that's gay"

[piggsy]

I'm not the ranting type of person, but I had to get this off my chest. Nothing angers me more than some punk teenager (or anybody, for that matter) saying "that's gay" when showing his dislike for something. The same goes for "that's retarded", but comparing something bad to homosexuality just sickens me.

[lowkey]

Word meanings change over time. Gay used to mean happy, instead of homosexual. I don't think people are necessarily aiming it towards gay people. They just aren't being sensitive to how others migh interpret their words either.

[lazario]

lowkey said:

Word meanings change over time. Gay used to mean happy, instead of homosexual.

Good argument.

lowkey said:

I don't think people are necessarily aiming it towards gay people.

However... I know kids pick it up from their stupid friends. But generally, people who use the word have disdain for gay people and what is perceived to be the interests for all gay men.

piggsy said:

The same goes for "that's retarded",

Sorry, Piggsy. I said it before and I'll say it again - no one hates handicapped or physically retarded people. And IF anyone did, they would be SOCIALLY OSTRACIZED. Do you understand? I don't mean any offense. But you cannot compare the treatment gay people get socially with the way handicapped people are treated. Two Completely Different Worlds.

[tsmooth31]

i have said both either thats gay or thats retarted

i dont have any probs with gay people or retarted people tho.. we had this discussion in another topic that it all about context

if i call a movie gay or retarted im obviously not show hate towards gay or retarted people.. so no1 should take offense to that.. i dont use the words alot but once ina while i will

most people dont have a prob with gays tho and the ones that do are just scared.. they act as if every gay man is gonna try and touch them or something.. i mean if i see a hot girl would i go up and grab her tit?? hell no

so its not like a gay guy is gonna come up and grab your dick or something.. at least from my experiences it seems thats why some people hate or are afraid of gays

like i have told laz i use the word sometimes and im sorry if it offends you but i have no prob with gays

[piggsy]

Lazario, I know the treatment of the mentally handicapped is not nearly as bad as the treatment of the gay community Believe me, I know. I did go to high school...

[vincentprice]

Just like tsmooth, I say both a lot but I don't have a problem with anyone.

Canadians are a whole other story though. ;D

[malbowski13]

WTF! This thread reminds of a part in "Silent Jay and Bob Strike Back" where Jason Biggs and Van Der Beek are talking about that phrase in particular.If you see two dudes going at it, can you then say "that's gay"?People who say this over and over again have problems but the odd time... let 'er rip! There were many articles in Fangoria when Hostel came out and it was all hissy-fits from people who thought that his dialogue was unrealistic and offensive.So, people getting tortured for fun isn't offensive but characters who use certain language is demeaning and offensive.BOLLOCKS!

[tsmooth31]

i really dont think any1 should take offense to a word

unless a non black guy was to go up toa black guy and say i hate you because your a nigger

or a non gay guy was to go up to a gay guy and say i hate you because your a fag

unless you are directly using the word against some1 like that then i really cant see why any1 would get mad or really have a prob with it

[lazario]

piggsy said:

Lazario, I know the treatment of the mentally handicapped is not nearly as bad as the treatment of the gay community Believe me, I know. I did go to high school...

Piggsy, it's all "Monkey See - Monkey Do." Today's generations of people have been taught by their elders that handicapped people are handicapped Not By Choice. And it's not socially acceptable - anywhere or in any way - to make fun of handicapped people or demean / discriminate against them in any way. And speaking of High School: if you made fun of a handicapped person in any of my schools, you would get beat up.

And as for the phrase, "retarded," at least 50% of people know the word has many meanings. And a great many people use the phrase without any disrespect whatsoever; disrespect is not inherent anywhere in the usage of the word. The word means: regressive, or, disintigration. And these things are always implied in the usage of the word.

Anyway, how most people use these words is determined by how they see others using them. Kids get a feeling today that it's not okay to make fun of handicapped people because their elders and peers "know" it's wrong to do so. But they are programmed to hate gay people and disapprove of them.


(this part is not directed at you, Piggsy : )
However- most people (at least 80%) who use the phrase "that's gay" are saying homosexuality is bad and wrong. It's a Disapproval Comparison. And poll people on the street to what "gay" means, in case you're going to argue that the word has a different meaning. The only people who would tell you that gay means anything other than homosexual will be English scholars, some college students, and actual Homosexual people.

There's no excuse for it. It does imply hate and it is stupid. Nobody uses gay to refer to anything but homosexual people anymore.

This is a universal truth, T : When you use the word at all and you don't use it in a positive way, it is discriminatory, offensive, and hateful. Why do you continue to defend hate? You cannot excuse it, no matter how hard you try.

admin said:

i really dont think any1 should take offense to a word

Well, how many times have you been targeted by words like these? How many people have used Hate Words against you? How many times? Real hate and discrimination? Were you ever overweight? How many people have told you that your birth is something that makes God cry? How many people say you are a drain on the entire nation because of your skin color - or assume you are a criminal or a pervert, just because of a human trait you were born with?

T - people do not like HATE. Do you blame them? So, do you understand yet why people take offense to words??? It's not hard to see why. It really isn't. And you have no right to say when other people are allowed to "get mad" or be offended.

Oh, and the examples you gave us are examples of when a person has made a physical threat to someone. It has nothing to do with "now it's okay to be offended." There's no such thing.

[tsmooth31]

well laz we clearly feel different about the whole situtation.. you seem to care to much what other people think and say.. i can honestly care less what any1 has to think or say about me.. i actually like if people hate me because the way i see it is they must be jealous .. i love hate.. because when it all comes down to it it only matters what the people close to you think.

laz your honestly gonna tell me that if some random guy hated you for being gay you would be mad and take offense to that?? its not even worth the time

i never have and never will care about what any1 else thinks.. and dont come with a rant about how i am wrong because i am just stating how i feel.. you can feel how you do and i respect that.. i used the word one time and when i found out you were gay and didnt like it i stopped right??

im just saying you gotta stop caring about what any1 else thinks because its really not even worth your time at all.. and thats some real talk

[lazario]

admin said:

well laz we clearly feel different about the whole situation..

And I'm saying - I understand these situations better because I'm actually gay. Why do you keep insisting you understand homophobia as well as I do? You do not. This is not the same as people being "jealous" of me. They are not. No one is jealous of me. Ask dickhead-Dave if he thinks anyone is jealous of me.

admin said:

you seem to care to much what other people think and say..

Did you ever think about why that is? And, during your thinking on this, did you ever think: Maybe I don't think other gay people, and their family and friends, should have to go through what I and many other gay people have had to go through? Stoping hate speech will help people in the longrun. If you don't care about that, I think you have a major flaw in your system.

admin said:

i can honestly care less what any1 has to think or say about me..

You can't compare yourself to gay people. There are entire worlds of difference between gay and straight.

admin said:

i actually like if people hate me because the way i see it is they must be jealous .. i love hate..

Well, you'll never know how it feels to be hated as much as gay people. So it's too easy for you to say these things. Are you still under the impression that the only thing gay people have to deal with are a few people saying - "that's gay" Have you ever seen the violence hurled upon gay people? Do you think that's all made up???

admin said:

because when it all comes down to it it only matters what the people close to you think.

Wise words. But you don't fully comprehend this subject. There's more to it than that. We have to make the world a better place for people like us. Because - yeah there is still racism, but this world is better place for black people. There is still sexism, but this world is a better place for women. But a lot of opportunities are still being taken away from gay people. There is still too much intolerance in this world. We are still letting our politicians, preachers, athletes, cops, and school district leaders create hostile environments for young gay people trying to grow into healthy adults. Parents still teach their children to insult and assault their gay peers, gay teens still struggle every day with unimaginable pressures and their self esteem, and hate crimes involving murder and things you can't even believe are still happening every day.

admin said:

laz your honestly gonna tell me that if some random guy hated you for being gay you would be mad and take offense to that?? its not even worth the time

Good point. But I'm trying to say - all true HATE SPEECH should be stopped altogether. So that future generations of minorities can actually have at least some of the opportunities everyone else has. Without the burdens of inequality.

admin said:

i never have and never will care about what any1 else thinks..

Oh yeah? Pay attention: You Are Lucky That You Have That Option. I am Gay. I ignore what other people think about my people and do you know what happens? Our rights are taken away from us and all that time I was too busy trying to be the "non-serious" person People Like You (people who Are Lucky Enough to Be Straight but Not Smart Enough to Know How Lucky They Are) think I should be. I can't afford to not care, T. I need to know what's going on in this world because I damn well do care. I'm not selfish enough to say- fuck what happens to everyone else. I want this to be a better world. And I don't think it's putting others that out of their way to expect they can treat us with at least the same basic respect women and blacks have earned.

[piggsy]

I'm sorry I started all this...I didn't know it would turn into such a big debate.

[malbowski13]

Debates are good though.As long as both sides are respectful and listen to the other.

[tsmooth31]

laz im not saying its ok for people to bad mouth and use violence against some1 because they are gay.. you seem to think thats what im saying and if i made it seem that way i dont think that

i know you are gay and im not so you are right i never had any1 hate me for being gay.. all im saying is there is always gonna be people that hate gays.. so its not worth it to get worked up about it.. its never gonna stop.. your not gonna be able to stop gay hate.. no1 wil be able to do it so all you can do is live with it.. not saying you have to accept it.. i dont even accept it but you have to be able to accept yourself for who you are and not care what that group of people think.. and by that group i mean any1 that has a problem with gays

[lazario]

Okay - that's what you have to say. And finally, I can say to you, without Evil-Dave theatrics: "Well said, T." And after this, we'll have nothing else to say on the matter.

You will understand if you don't already, why I choose to get worked up about this. It's not because I want all hatred of gay people to go away. All hatred can never be extinguished. All I want is for things to be better. We can all play a part in that. Just by... wow, something so simple as- watching what we say.

It's not hard. So, there's no reason for any of us to ever pretend it's hard, either.