the films of Dario Argento

[lazario]

admin said:

i dont really try and guess the killer..but ill use trauma as an example..that was so obvious to me..i almost thought it was to obvious to even be true

Oh, Trauma is a horse of a different color. I'd never argue with you about that. I still didn't try to guess the killer's identity on that one, but it did seem obvious when I found out who it was. There was a lot about that killer's identity that seemed as though it wasn't well thought-out. But, I just don't care about that stuff. It's important and you are right to call it out. But then there's the level of: how much does it hurt the movie. In my opinion (just me), the movie was really all about Aura's emotional state, and David (right name?)'s. It went back and forth and back again. It was about how lonely and screwed up she was because of her attachment to her mother who was psychotic.

The one thing I would question, about its obviousness is... how did you know about what happened to Nicholas before you saw the revelation scene about the doctors? How could you possibly tell the baby was the mother's and was killed by the doctors? So, therefore, if no one knows the motive- how can you know the killer's identity?

Those are the kind of details you have to just wait through an Argento film to find out.

But if you were thinking- most people come to an Argento film for the style... who could argue with that? That's what makes him such a genius. You can watch his movies for the killers, the obsessive main characters, or just the amazing set design, music, camerawork, and other visual effects. The surreality. Because, the killer portion usually fits in with the crude reality of most detective / serial killer movies. And that's not Argento's forte in my opinion. The killer is really a small part of what's going on.

And I think his other films are much different. I mean, if we're still talking about guessing who the killer is... Inferno. Tell me you knew who the killer was going to be in that movie and I'll laugh in your face. All the evil people in that movie have something else on their mind, something else in their nature that you can't trace to any of the murder scenes. But then, that movie is just so different from most of Argento's films from 74-87.

In Deep Red... you may guess. But that's the movie that really established my theory that it doesn't matter who the killer is. If you had never met that character until the first frame they revealed themselves, that killer's performance in the end is amazing. Those eyes, that face... You can't focus on making the killer harder to figure out and still get a final scene that resonates like that one.

Tenebre was just wacky, so it so doesn't matter who the killer is. Well, actually it sort of does. But the movie is so damn perverse, nobody's sitting there going, "here it comes- we're gonna see who it is." Their waiting for the next jaw-droppingly beautiful woman in white clothing to do something provocative... or get stabbed or hacked up. I think Argento must have known that.

Opera was awesome. The killer was more obsessive than the main character. So, by the end, she just brushes everyone off like flies and, well... you can tell she's more than a little nutty. And that's the point of the killer in Opera. To bring something inside Betty to the outside.

Phenomena's killer was... well, in a way, you could never tell who was killing who in that movie. So that in itself made it unpredictable.

That just leaves his straight-giallo's. I was surprised to find out the killer in Bird with the Crystal Plumage. Cat o' Nine Tails was weird and lame, so I didn't care who the killer was, I just wanted to see him get beaten up by the movie's hero. And Four Flies was so emotionally crippling, that ending was like fate. And then, except for Stendhal, I haven't seen any others. Except that in Phantom of the Opera and Jenifer, I think everyone knew who the killers in those movies were. I didn't think Stendhal was brilliant. Just impressive and haunting.



And, Dave - I don't know what goes on in Argento's head. But from 1969 to 1996, I think he was the greatest filmmaker in the genre. Because I haven't seen anyone juggle as many elements in one movie and make it seem like he knew what he was doing the entire tiime.

[tsmooth31]

any1 seen his new movie mother of tears???

i downloaded it last night but havent watched it yet

[malbowski13]

I'm watching it as soon as it comes out. Argento could take a crap and it would be worth watching!

[tsmooth31]

haha yea.. it really doesnt sound as interesting as his earlier movies from the description i read, but i do like argento so i will give it a watch

hopefully it is better then his last 2 movies the card player and do you like hitchcock... and also his MOH episodes

[malbowski13]

You didn't dig Pelts? Card Player was a letdown though.

[tsmooth31]

pelts wasnt bad.. but i was expecing more.. it was really nothing new and sure it had some great gore scenes but even they were pretty fake looking

[tsmooth31]

so i just watched mother of tears

it was pretty good.. had a good original storyline with some suspense and some good gore..although the last 15-20 mins felt a but rushed and the ending wasnt that great..it could have been great had they took more time with the ending and maybe made the movie a little longer

still tho it was good and deff worth a view...especially if you are a argento fan

[lazario]

I will wait for the DVD release and if the bonus features look juicy enough, I'll check it out. But I still haven't seen Sleepless yet. I'm waiting for fucking Lionsgate to give us a Widescreen copy of the movie. Idiots - they're spending so much time on shit like Good Luck Chuck and the Larry the Cable Guy movies to give a fuck about their indie and horror film roots, without which they wouldn't be here to give us so many shitty movies. They have the rights to Sleepless and other movies that need a DVD re-release and they're just fucking around. Worthless dipshits. Anyway, haven't seen Card Player either.

[malbowski13]

There's an awesome steel-box dvd set of 5 Argento films coming in late May.Included are Do You Like Hitchcock,Tenebrae,Phenomena,The Card Player,and Trauma. Phenomena and Tenebrae are given nice-looking Anchor Bay releases at the same time. I'm picking up the single release for sure.

[tsmooth31]

sleepless was pretty good from what i remember.. been so long since i have seen it tho

and mal i also saw that boxset but like you i would rather pick up Phenomena and Tenebrae seperate as i didnt care for the other 3 movies that much

[lazario]

I am definitely getting the new Tenebre and Phenomena DVD's. I never really thought about getting the boxset. But those Bava boxsets were pretty cheap. Does anyone here have those? They're both under $30 each - but of course the reason I ask is because Bay of Blood had such a big problem with the audio on the first Image DVD - I haven't heard yet if Anchor Bay fixed that yet. I want to pick up the movie and Lisa and the Devil for quite some time. So if they haven't fixed the movie then that would explain the lower cost.

If this new Argento set is less than $35 - I'm getting it. Since I paid about that for the original 2-pack DVD of Deep Red / Tenebre only 5 years ago. My only concern, other than of course how the new Tenebre and Phenomena discs will look and sound better than the 1999 Anchor Bay discs, is how this boxset is packaged. I really want it to be like 5 normal sized DVDs in a box. That way, since I already have the 2005 DVD of Trauma, I can just take it out of the pack and keep the new 4 that I don't have.

[malbowski13]

What is Tenebre like? (open question)

[malbowski13]

Deep Red was very cool. I didn't care for Inferno that much.

[tsmooth31]

well according to cduniverse which is wher ei usually get my dvd's its 30$ and change and it is on 5 discs

what i wish i could do is pick out any 5 argento movies i want for 30$... not thattttttttttt would kick some major ass

but here is the link if you wanna check it out

www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7640103&style=movie

[lazario]

I think I'll probably get this new box. 4 out of 5 of those DVD's I need (or want).

May 1, 2008 6:32:47 GMT -5 @malbowski13 said:

What is Tenebre like? (open question)

Well... do you know what a Noir film is? It's kind of like a noir film, in color. There are detectives, a man who is a writer, and then we follow the victims around as a killer is killing them. The movie is very stylish. The focus of the style is mainly on architecture (it takes place in Rome, Italy) - modern buildings, mainly trendy-looking apartments. The music is mostly synth-driven with a sort of old-fashioned (pipe) organ mixed in with Goblin's heavy beats. The deaths in the film are incredibly bloody- this is without exception Argento's bloodiest film. There is also a lot of nudity, which actually is not typical for an Argento movie. It's an hour, 40 minutes. There's a lot of showy camera work. Almost as much as Deep Red, Opera, and Suspiria. It's a really sleazy movie, the characters are very annoying. I like it a lot, though. And over 95% of Argento fans think the movie is a masterpiece.

May 1, 2008 6:34:05 GMT -5 @malbowski13 said:

Deep Red was very cool. I didn't care for Inferno that much.

Neither did I. But of course there are parts of Inferno that I think are really great. The underwater scene, the scene with Sarah in the library, the taxi scene, the scenes with the Nurse.

[malbowski13]

What about Phenomena?

[tsmooth31]

There is also a lot of nudity, which actually is not typical for an Argento movie


just about every argento movie has alot of nudity..certainly more then most other horror movies

[lazario]

May 1, 2008 16:54:41 GMT -5 @malbowski13 said:

What about Phenomena?

Okay... Phenomena is Argento's "Nature" horror film. So most of it takes place outside. There are big, lush European forests, a big lake / river, a big green field. Then about 35% of the movie takes place at a big girls' school, a huge, dark building. Then there are a few scenes at a rundown, ugly house that's filled with flies. The lighting in the film is really dark. Anchor Bay's DVD out now looks kind of bad, the film ends up looking cheap for whatever reason. It might be that the production design is so dark because of the lighting that everything looks dirty and gritty (unlike super-stylish Tenebre). But the camerawork is typical Argento- very amazing. That's one of the reasons I can't wait for the new DVD to come out.

So the movie is about a girl who is the daughter of an American actor who loves insects and begins to link telepathically to them when she goes to a Swiss boarding school where a killer is murdering young girls (these victims are literally in the 12-15 year old range, which kind of makes the movie one of Argento's most disturbing movies). Insects can help detectives determine details in murder investigations, so she becomes a sort of supernatural detective - following the insects outside the school to clues that the killer leaves behind. But... she's really socially awkward. So, it's not like she's a tough, woman-warrior type character.

Mainly though, she is searching for clues, the music is still Claudio Simonetti from Goblin. The music in Phenomena is more guitar-driven than Tenebre but there are still some synth and beats, plus there is an opera singer that sings for several of the pieces of music. There's also some heavy metal songs in the score. The murders in the film are not very bloody. Except for the first one, where Dario kills his daughter, Fiore, in one of the most beautiful Argento death scenes in any of his movies - the Waterfall scene. That scene does not disappoint. There is some gore at the end, though. I love the end a lot. Phenomena is my favorite Argento movie.

The Anchor Bay DVD version out now is 1 hour, 49 minutes. But there's a European version of the movie that is at least 1 hour, 54 minutes, and there's a lot cut from the movie. Mostly little things. The Tenebre DVD cut out a short shot of a killer walking around. The Phenomena DVD cuts out a ton of shots as far as I know. And a scene where Jennifer (the name of Jennifer Connolly's character in the movie) levitates at the school. I have part of that on my VHS copy of the Argento documentary, Dario Argento's World of Horror - plus of course, behind the scenes footage. God I love that VHS. It was on DVD for awhile but now it's out of print and kind of expensive. Maybe time has changed and it's gone down now... Don't know.

May 1, 2008 17:26:53 GMT -5 tsmooth31 said:

There is also a lot of nudity, which actually is not typical for an Argento movie

just about every argento movie has alot of nudity..certainly more then most other horror movies

Have you seen: Bird with the Crystal Plumage, Four Flies on Gray Velvet, Deep Red, Suspiria, Inferno, Phenomena, and I believe The Stendhal Syndrome? They don't have any female nudity in them at all. That's more than half of his entire director's resume. Next- Opera has 1 shirtless woman but you see her breasts for maybe 5 seconds tops. In Trauma, you see Asia's breasts for maybe 4 seconds. Cat O' Nine Tails, Jenifer, and Tenebre are Argento's only films with any real nudity in them. Though I haven't seen Sleepless, The Card Player, Mother of Tears, or Do You Like Hitchcock. And I doubt there's any real nudity in The Black Cat part of Two Evil Eyes (am I wrong?).

[lazario]

Here are some photos from the movies.

Tenebre:

Phenomena:

[malbowski13]

Cool Laz. I'm sold on the two singles for sure.That chimp looks fucked up!